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More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields
cpkPostMarch 1, 2015, 22:42
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March 1, 2015, 02:55
Normal topicMore Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

The most recent ID3 standard is something like a decade old and even then never was "agreed upon". So there are a lot of common field in other tagging systems that all get mapped to TXXX or TIPL. Yate has ten custom fields that are great but are not enough to map to even half of the fields common to Vorbis, APE3 and the internal name for MusicBrainz even. There is a nice table here http://picard.musicbrainz.org/docs/mappings/.

MusicBrainz is great in that it has these additional fields and ID3 is great in that it can have all kinds of stuff put into it by mapping but if I want to create a panel that has many of these common fields I am limited by only ten custom fields in Yate. The UD Text at least lets me see and with a extra clicks get into fields to edit them but things that would better be displayed on more relevant panels are forced into one UD Text panel.

One way may be just to add more custom fields I can map too and ten I can make actions to get the data from the UD Text field and put it into the appropriate fields but it would be slicker if there was a preference to enable/disable a bunch of these common fields and enabling them would force some routine in Yate to automatically do the mapping.

I demoed Jaikoz of a while and it was nice enough to have many/most of these fields in it but there was so much I didn't like about using the app and its really non-mac UI that it didn't work for me.

But fields like barcode, asin, script, original year, producer, arranger, mixer, and show are ones I would like but also the common IDs for MusicBrainz/AcoustID and Discogs make sense to me to have the option of enabling internal fields for. Then I can use my custom fields for things that are not so common like guitar tabs, sheet music, midi, vocoder system, detail on what movie/tv show/anime/game the track is from and episode [opening/closing] stuff that will likely never have an official tag but something I still want to keep track of.

I suspect this request would be some work though so I suppose I've no choice but to pick my ten custom fields carefully. But, thank you in advance for at least considering the suggestion.

2MR2PostMarch 1, 2015, 22:56
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August 23, 2012, 19:27
Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

Starting in the just released v3.4 you can do the low level mappings for custom fields so that you do not have to move UD Text items to custom fields if mapped. You can have different low level mappings for ID3 (TXXX and COMM), FLAC and M4A. BTW Yate has its own frame mapping table which you can find on the main help page.

All of this stuff is a trade off between getting directly at everything and not having a massive number of custom fields and/or hard named fields. Yate even (internally) normalizes some of the fields so that you can use the User Defined function ignoring file type.

All of this is possible and not terribly difficult to do. However it is an extremely large number of fields and that adds time and space to every file loaded. I tend to think that it is a losing battle as there will always be more fields. There is already a means to get at the fields from actions but there is currently no way to map them to Custom Panels.

I will try think about some compromise.

cpkPostMarch 1, 2015, 23:52
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

I had not seen that I could do that low-level mapping with actions - Thanks! But, without a way to display that is custom panels in a nice and pretty way it doesn't really do me any good.

I understand what you are saying about a trade off and I bet you are right about there always being more fields and obviously adding a lot of this data to every music file is just going to make them that much larger. But, it sure is handy to have pertinent information in the music file and if a particular field is not used by someone then there is not point allocating any space to it and no penalty for there being the option to put the data there if the user wanted it. Or is there something I'm not understanding about how this works?

2MR2PostMarch 1, 2015, 23:59
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

Actually I meant the space required to represent the data in memory. Each permanent field occupies a slot and location in list, etc. It affects Rename templates, File to Tag templates, file list columns and actions to a lessor degree. Every hard wired field occupies a location in a dictionary. The keys are allocated whether the data exists or not. This is necessary so that the bound values do not fault when the OS attempts to update the display. The actual overhead in the files themselves is negligible unless you populate the data.

Adding dozens if not hundreds of fields would require rethinking how lists of fields get displayed. Again, all doable, simply not easy.

I'm open to what people want to do. Let's see if anyone else has an opinion.

cpkPostMarch 2, 2015, 07:58
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Oh I see now what you meant. I was not aware that there were such complications in adding more fields. I'm hoping that others will want the flexibility of more fields.

2MR2PostApril 8, 2015, 14:02
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

The upcoming v3.6 of Yate supports mapping UDTIs onto Custom Panels. 🙂

cpkPostApril 9, 2015, 00:12
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

I'm looking forward to it. 😀 There were a lot of nice things (especially in regards to actions) in the last release and I haven't had time to really use them all yet. I've been a little stymied by not having more than three custom panels but being able to more quickly get to all the built-in panels is nice with the panel picker. Thanks a lot for that!

2MR2PostApril 9, 2015, 16:01
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

I'm thinking of bumping the number of Custom Panels to 5. As UDTIs can (or will) be directly mapped, the need for more Custom fields is somewhat diminished.

UDTIs will be easier to manage as all UDTIs directly processed by Yate will have their names normalized across all audio types to something that makes sense. e.g. "MusicBrainz Release Id" as opposed to "MusicBrainz Album Id". Previously only FLAC metadata was normalized and the ID3 frame name was used for display purposes. Some of the 'storage' names no longer make sense. If you have lots of actions which use the older UDTI names and you don't want to modify them, there is a preference switch which reverts the naming.

cpkPostApril 10, 2015, 17:36
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

Five is definitely better than three for me. Until I see how the mapping is going to work I'm not sure about it yet. Because I've created UDTI fields that don't exist in ID3 or FLAC but are useful to me, such as sheet music and guitar tab, there isn't anything to map these to so I would prefer to make a custom panel similar to the existing one for the lyrics. I've been contemplating also adding in midi information as well. That would use of three custom panels right there. Or, maybe you could add a tabs feature to custom panels, then I could use one custom panel and have multiple tabs. Yate then becomes not only my tagger app but also my only GUI to access this other metadata I've decided to save in the audio file so that I don't have to keep track of all these files independently. But mine is undoubtedly not the normal use case.

I think normalizing the names will help a lot. I don't personally care what the storage names are, it is the display name that matters the most. Most useful though would be something that defined the data that should be in the field. The info on the ID3 website is old but detailed, Musicbrainz help is really hit and miss, their links for IDs for example all land on the same useless page.

2MR2PostApril 11, 2015, 08:34
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Normal topicRe: More Custom Fields and/or Common non-ID3 Fields

Any custom UDTI names you've defined will work fine. The name you've defined would be the name you use when putting it on a custom panel.

Tabs on custom panels would only complicate the issue for me. They would not lower any requirements and would be yet another means of accessing the data Adding more custom panels would be more straightforward and more efficient. We'll see 🙂

The ID3 standard is so old that in some of the cases the defined meanings are almost useless. As far as MusicBrainz goes, Yate only really works with three id types: The Release Id which gives a unique reference to a specific instance of an album. The Recording Id which gives a reference to a track. This is not necessarily album specific. The Release Track Id which is not exposed on their website for searching and gives a unique identifier for a track in a release.

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